[IrishElk] Just Joe Being Joe

[irishelk]

Several times a year, Joe goes out in broad daylight with plenty of witnesses and attempts to commit a federal crime. Whether he successfully breaks the law is a matter of dispute, but no one has ever reported him, and if they did, the authorities would do nothing. What does Joe do?

[Balin]

Would the crime be considered a felony? A misdemeanor?
Is Joe performing a public good?
Is Joe loitering?

[irishelk]

Balin

Would the crime be considered a felony? A misdemeanor? I believe this.
Is Joe performing a public good? Yesish.
Is Joe loitering? No.

[Sundowner]

Is Joe picking up garbage in the streets? (which is in many jurisdictions de-jure theft, or theft by finding, as garbage is not considered ownerless things)

[trebor]

Is anyone else committing this action with Joe? Would you say other people also regularly do this? Is having witnesses integral to the act? Is Joe in a vehicle when he does this? Is he in a city? Is his profession relevant? Does he have a relevant hobby? Is Joe a HAM?

[Tiger]

Is Joe attempting to commit this crime for the sake of committing the crime? Or is it that this act is inherently illegal?

[irishelk]

Sundowner

Is Joe picking up garbage in the streets? (which is in many jurisdictions de-jure theft, or theft by finding, as garbage is not considered ownerless things) No, but interesting!


trebor

Is anyone else committing this action with Joe? Not relevantly. Would you say other people also regularly do this? Few, but some. Is having witnesses integral to the act? No. Is Joe in a vehicle when he does this? No. Is he in a city? Probably not. Is his profession relevant? Does he have a relevant hobby? This act could constitute part of his profession or hobby. Is Joe a HAM? Yes.


Tiger

Is Joe attempting to commit this crime for the sake of committing the crime? No. Or is it that this act is inherently illegal? In given circumstances, yes.

[AlbatrossLover]

Is Joe aware he's committing a crime? Is he breaking an archaic/obscure law that's still in the books but isn't enforced anymore?

Is this more likely to happen in a small town? A rural place?

[trebor]

Is Joe doing this in what would be considered nature more than an inhabited place? Would the crime be theft? Arson? Violating a national park regulation?

Are the witnesses HAMs? Are they there primarily to witness this? Is Joe a performer?

[irishelk]

AlbatrossLover

Is Joe aware he's committing a crime? Irr. Is he breaking an archaic/obscure law that's still in the books but isn't enforced anymore? Obscure, but definitely still in force.

Is this more likely to happen in a small town? Possibly. A rural place? Yes, I'd think so.


trebor

Is Joe doing this in what would be considered nature more than an inhabited place? Irr, but probably. Would the crime be theft? Arson? Violating a national park regulation? No to rest.

Are the witnesses HAMs? Irr/a mix. Are they there primarily to witness this? Yes. Is Joe a performer? Yope. He does something that some people might come see as a kind of entertainment.

[Tiger]

Would this act be considered more of a demonstration than a performance?
Does Joe require materials to commit this crime?

Let's say Joe get into his car, drives to this place, commits the crime, gets back into his car, and then drives home. Ignoring the amount of fuel used, does his car weigh more than when he left, or less? What I'm trying to get at here is - is this an act of using up/distributing materials or is it one of taking/harvesting/gathering materials? Or neither?

[trebor]

Is the attempt to commit the crime the main event here? Is it part of a larger thing Joe is doing? Is Joe a stunt person? An athlete? Is what he's doing considered a sport? A game? Is he attempting to climb something? To walk a high-wire? Is he sculpting something? Does he alter the natural landscape in the course of doing this activity? If so, is that the goal? Are any animals involved in this? Does Joe's activity require significant training for him to do? Is the activity meant to benefit the environment? To harm it?

Is he in front of seated witnesses when he does this? Does he do it at a place that is purpose-built for this activity? Does the activity last for: less than a minute? Less than ten minutes? Less than an hour? Less than a day?

[irishelk]

Tiger

Would this act be considered more of a demonstration Possibly. than a performance? He would probably not consider it this, but others might.
Does Joe require materials to commit this crime? Most likely.

Let's say Joe get into his car, drives to this place, commits the crime, gets back into his car, and then drives home. Ignoring the amount of fuel used, does his car weigh more than when he left, or less? What I'm trying to get at here is - is this an act of using up/distributing materials or is it one of taking/harvesting/gathering materials? Or neither? AFAIK, neither.


trebor

Is the attempt to commit the crime the main event here? Yes. Is it part of a larger thing Joe is doing? It is the main purpose.
Is Joe a stunt person? An athlete? Is what he's doing considered a sport? A game? Is he attempting to climb something? To walk a high-wire? Is he sculpting something? No to all.
Does he alter the natural landscape in the course of doing this activity? If so, is that the goal? Noish, but OTRT. Are any animals involved in this? Possibly, irr. Does Joe's activity require significant training for him to do? Possibly. Sorry, the activity itself has many possible variations. Is the activity meant to benefit the environment? Yesish. To harm it? No.

Is he in front of seated witnesses when he does this? Not relevantly. Does he do it at a place that is purpose-built for this activity? Irr, possibly. Does the activity last for: less than a minute? Less than ten minutes? Less than an hour? Less than a day? This, exact timing irr.

[Sundowner]

Is the law he is breaking aimed at protecting individuals? groups? the public order? federal property?
Is he interacting with people in the course of his actions? Does he need other people as part of it?
Does he add something to the environment? remove something? alter something? picture/check/verify?

[irishelk]

Sundowner

Is the law he is breaking aimed at protecting individuals? This is probably the intent. groups? the public order? And this. federal property?
Is he interacting with people in the course of his actions? No. Does he need other people as part of it? Assume no.
Does he add something to the environment? remove something? alter something? Hard to answer, but this is the intent. picture/check/verify? No to rest.

[JenBurdoo]

Is Joe protesting? Trespassing? Does he mark something, like posting a sign or graffiti?

[trebor]

Are any geographic features relevant? Does Joe do this on specific days? Could Joe also do this at night, as opposed to in broad daylight? Does it have to be sunny for him to do this?

This could be part of his profession or hobby, you say. Does he work in arts/entertainment? Education? Activism? Medical profession? Life-saving professions, such as firefighter? Search and rescue? The law industry? Sciences? Does he have a desk job? Agriculture?

Would the police not arrest him because to do so would be bad PR for them? Because arresting him would benefit his cause? Because it would expose the officers to danger? It would pull resources, allowing for a more serious crime to be committed elsewhere?

[irishelk]

JenBurdoo

Is Joe protesting? Trespassing? Does he mark something, like posting a sign or graffiti? No to all.


trebor

Are any geographic features relevant? Not specifically, but they might be involved. Does Joe do this on specific days? Not relevantly. Could Joe also do this at night, as opposed to in broad daylight? Yes. Does it have to be sunny for him to do this? Yope--maybe explore.

This could be part of his profession or hobby, you say. Does he work in arts/entertainment? Education? Activism? Medical profession? Life-saving professions, such as firefighter? Search and rescue? The law industry? Sciences? He might consider it this. Does he have a desk job? No to rest.
Agriculture? This is definitely involved.

Would the police not arrest him because to do so would be bad PR for them? This may be part of it. Because arresting him would benefit his cause? Because it would expose the officers to danger? It would pull resources, allowing for a more serious crime to be committed elsewhere? No to rest.

[CoffeeBean]

Is Joe doing something with grass, trees, shrubs, flowers or some other kind of plant?
Would he do this act several days in succession? On random days or nights? When someone asks him to do it? When he is aware of a certain situation?
Would he do it on a bright, sunny day? A cloudy day? A rainy day? During a very bad storm? Very late at night or very early in the morning before the sun rises?
Is Joe breaking a law by going somewhere that is off-limits to him and other people not authorized to be there? Is he trespassing? Is he going to a place(s) that is near a federal area like a roadway, railroad, bridge, tunnel, etc. that has laws in place to discourage people from being there because they may come into contact with vehicles?

[Sundowner]

Does he need tools for his actions?
Does he enter private property? public ground? fields? meadows? forests? rivers? streets? parks? gardens? backyards?
Is the illegal part the entering of that area? or the actions he is doing there?
Does he interact with the nature? with plants? animals?

[irishelk]

CoffeeBean

Is Joe doing something with grass, trees, shrubs, flowers or some other kind of plant? Possibly, see note below.
Would he do this act several days in succession? On random days or nights? When someone asks him to do it? Likely. When he is aware of a certain situation? Any of these are possible.
Would he do it on a bright, sunny day? Yes. A cloudy day? Possibly. A rainy day? Relevantly no. During a very bad storm? Relevantly no. Very late at night or very early in the morning before the sun rises? Possibly.
Is Joe breaking a law by going somewhere that is off-limits to him and other people not authorized to be there? Is he trespassing? Is he going to a place(s) that is near a federal area like a roadway, railroad, bridge, tunnel, etc. that has laws in place to discourage people from being there because they may come into contact with vehicles? No to all.


Sundowner

Does he need tools for his actions? Possibly.
Does he enter private property? public ground? fields? meadows? forests? rivers? streets? parks? gardens? backyards? Likely several of these, irr. where exactly.
Is the illegal part the entering of that area? No. or the actions he is doing there? Yes.
Does he interact with the nature? with plants? animals? Possibly.

NOTE: Sorry for all the irr and "possibly" answers. What he is doing can involve a wide variety of factors and physical actions. I'd say everyone who does it, does it differently.

[CoffeeBean]

Does Joe commit the crime by walking in certain areas? Standing somewhere? Sitting somewhere? Standing or sitting on something? Lying down somewhere? Removing something? Bringing something to a place(s)? Altering something? Making noise? Performing a physical action that is banned?

[biograd]

I know you answered an implicit "no" to the question of whether Joe would consider firefighting to be part of his job, but are fires at all relevant here? controlled burns?

If not, does he still need the ground? or the vegetation? to be dry, for what he is doing?

[Sundowner]

Is he watering plants?

[irishelk]

CoffeeBean

Does Joe commit the crime by walking in certain areas? Standing somewhere? Sitting somewhere? Standing or sitting on something? Lying down somewhere? Removing something? Bringing something to a place(s)? Altering something? Yope. Making noise? Performing a physical action that is banned? No to rest. No one action he does is illegal, just the activity as a whole.


biograd

I know you answered an implicit "no" to the question of whether Joe would consider firefighting to be part of his job, but are fires at all relevant here? controlled burns? No.

If not, does he still need the ground? or the vegetation? to be dry, for what he is doing? Debatable, but it always would be dry when doing this.


Sundowner

Is he watering plants? Yope! OTRT!

[trebor]

Is he watering down something that isn't plants? Or something that isn't colloquially referred to as a plant, such as grass? Is he watering his lawn? Someone else's? Is he just wetting soil?

[irishelk]

trebor

Is he watering down something that isn't plants? Or something that isn't colloquially referred to as a plant, such as grass? No, plants are definitely involved.
Is he watering his lawn? Possibly. Someone else's? Even more possibly... Is he just wetting soil? Possiblyyyy....

This is where the "matter of dispute" from the puzzle statement comes in. In my opinion, no, he is probably not watering anything.

[GalFisk]

Is he watering fake plants? Fake grass? Using fake water?

[trebor]

Is he gardening? Fertilizing something? Planting things?

Is the "breaking the law" part contingent on something being watered? On water being used? Does he do this during a drought? Or when there're restrictions on water use?

Does Joe use a hose through the course of this? A sprinkler system? A watering can? A plane? Is he crop dusting (and not in the flatulence sense)?

[irishelk]

GalFisk

Is he watering fake plants? Fake grass? No. Using fake water? Noish...maybe in a very vague sense...


trebor

Is he gardening? Fertilizing something? Planting things? No to all.

Is the "breaking the law" part contingent on something being watered? On water being used? Hm, hard to answer. If he succeeded in doing the watering, he would have broken the law. Does he do this during a drought? Probably, but... Or when there're restrictions on water use? Irr.

Does Joe use a hose through the course of this? A sprinkler system? A watering can? A plane? No to all, in fact. Is he crop dusting (and not in the flatulence sense)? LMAO! No.

[Mimino]

Does he attempt to water something, but does not succeed? i.e. the water (or whatever liquid) does not reach the intended place?
Is it physically impossible to succeed in doing the watering? and that is what he is going to make a point of?
Does he pour water onto something? another liquid? Is the liquid in a container?
Does he allow rain water to get somewhere it would not have gone by itself?

[GalFisk]

Vaguely fake water: water from a strange source? Rainwater? water form a fiuntain? fire hydrant? Urine?

[irishelk]

Mimino

Does he attempt to water something, but does not succeed? i.e. the water (or whatever liquid) does not reach the intended place? Most likely, yes.
Is it physically impossible to succeed in doing the watering? Debatable. and that is what he is going to make a point of? No.
Does he pour No. water onto something? another liquid? Is the liquid in a container? No to all.
Does he allow rain water to get somewhere it would not have gone by itself? Yope, OTRT.


GalFisk

Vaguely fake water: water from a strange source? Noish. Rainwater? Yes. water form a fiuntain? fire hydrant? Urine? No to rest.

[GalFisk]

Rainwater from: a roof? Street? Creek? Cistern? Directly from the sky, without impacting anything else before going to the relevant place?

[biograd]

Does Joe perform a rain dance, or similar supernatural/non-physical means of trying to provoke rain in a certain location? If he were successful, maybe it could be construed as "diverting a natural water course" or something like that, which is illegal (to preclude things people building un-authorized dams and the like)?

[irishelk]

GalFisk

Rainwater from: a roof? Street? Creek? Cistern? Directly from the sky, without impacting anything else before going to the relevant place? This.


biograd

Does Joe perform a rain dance, or similar supernatural/non-physical means of trying to provoke rain in a certain location? Yep! If he were successful, maybe it could be construed as "diverting a natural water course" or something like that, which is illegal (to preclude things people building un-authorized dams and the like)? Close enough!


*************************SPOILER

Joe offers his services as a rainmaker to communities that are experiencing drought. If his rain dances were actually successful in altering the weather, then technically he is in violation of part of US Code 330:

"No person may engage, or attempt to engage, in any weather modification activity in the United States unless he submits to the Secretary such reports with respect thereto, in such form and containing such information, as the Secretary may by rule prescribe."

Even if it works, though, he probably won't get in trouble for it as the federal government is unlikely to believe that he successfully petitioned the gods for rain!

[trebor]

Neat! Never would have thought of that. Reminds me of this episode of Futility Closet: https://www.futilitycloset.com/2015/06/ ... rainmaker/

[irishelk]

Ooh, thank you, haven't gone back to that one yet.