lat-puzz.com

by **Sundowner64** » Mon Nov 27, 2023 10:49 am

Inspired by BitterLemonCurry's puzzle.

Taking the instructions on the scoresheet literally gave the musicians a nice idea for a fundraiser.

True story.

by **GalFisk** » Mon Nov 27, 2023 11:36 am

Were the instructions meant to be taken literally? Were they in the form of notes? Tones? Chords? Lyrics? Words? Did they raise funds for a group? A cause? A faith? Research? Aid? Medicine?

by **Sundowner64** » Mon Nov 27, 2023 12:34 pm

GalFisk
Were the instructions meant to be taken literally? Yope. (who knows, actually) Were they in the form of notes? Tones? Chords? Lyrics? Words? This one. Did they raise funds for a group? A cause? This one. A faith? Research? Aid? Medicine?

by **GalFisk** » Mon Nov 27, 2023 12:51 pm

Does the cause fight for someone's rights? Against someone's wrongs? Raise awareness of something? Politics relevant? Military? Is the cause related to music? Relevant how many musicians there were? Did they hold a fundraiser concert? Did the instructions relevantly contain musical terms? Foreign words? Were the instructions written by a composer? Band member? Band leader? Relevant what genre of music the band played? Which instruments? Did they play instruments? Did they sing? Did they write their own music?

by **Sundowner64** » Mon Nov 27, 2023 1:51 pm

GalFisk
Does the cause fight for someone's rights? No. Against someone's wrongs? Neither. Just something nice where it makes sense to put in some money. Raise awareness of something? To some extent. Politics relevant? No. Military? No. Is the cause related to music? Yes. Relevant how many musicians there were? Not much. Did they hold a fundraiser concert? Explore that a bit. Did the instructions relevantly contain musical terms? No specific musical terms. Common words in musical context. Foreign words? No, English words. Were the instructions written by a composer? This one. Band member? Band leader? Relevant what genre of music the band played? Somewhat. Which instruments? Yes. Did they play instruments? Yes. Did they sing? No. Did they write their own music? No.

by **GalFisk** » Mon Nov 27, 2023 2:19 pm

Instruments: percussion? Woodwind? String? Brass? Keyboard? Electronic? Did they play classical music? Did the idea for the fundraiser arise during a concert? Exploring fundraiser concert: did they have a fundraiser before the main concert? After? During, but not as the entire concert? Did they play one specific piece of music as a fundraiser? Relevant how the funds were raised? If so: ticket sales? Cash collection? Electronic payments? Tips? Did the funds help musicians? Help educate musicians? Get kids instruments?

by **Sundowner64** » Mon Nov 27, 2023 2:52 pm

GalFisk
Instruments: percussion? Woodwind? String? Brass? Keyboard? This one. Electronic? Did they play classical music? This is somewhat disputable. Definitely not "old classics". You may call it "modern classics" or "experimental classics". Did the idea for the fundraiser arise during a concert? Yes. Exploring fundraiser concert: did they have a fundraiser before the main concert? After? During, but not as the entire concert? During, explore. Did they play one specific piece of music as a fundraiser? Yes. Relevant how the funds were raised? If so: ticket sales? Cash collection? Electronic payments? Tips? The means of payment is not particularly relevant. Did the funds help musicians? Some degree of -ish. Help educate musicians? No. Get kids instruments? No.

by **GalFisk** » Mon Nov 27, 2023 3:00 pm

Keyboard: piano? Organ? Grand piano? Synthesizer? Accordion? Harpsicord? Was the composer still alive? Did they play music from different composers? Did they raise funds for the composer? For composers? Did they raise funds playing the same piece of music that gave them the idea?

by **Sundowner64** » Mon Nov 27, 2023 10:03 pm

GalFisk
Keyboard: piano? Organ? This one. Grand piano? Synthesizer? Accordion? Harpsicord? Was the composer still alive? No. Did they play music from different composers? Only one piece by one composer is relevant. Did they raise funds for the composer? For composers? No to both. Did they raise funds playing the same piece of music that gave them the idea? Yes.

by **GalFisk** » Tue Nov 28, 2023 6:37 pm

Organ: church organ? Pump organ? More than one organ at the same time? Does more than one person play a single organ? Church music relevant? Is it a well-known piece of music? Is it written for organ?

by **Sundowner64** » Wed Nov 29, 2023 9:53 am

GalFisk
Organ: church organ? This. Pump organ? More than one organ at the same time? One. Does more than one person play a single organ? Yope, explore. Church music relevant? No. Is it a well-known piece of music? YMMV. It has an article in Wikipedia, so it fulfils their definition of relevance. Is it written for organ? Yes.

by **GalFisk** » Wed Nov 29, 2023 11:08 am

Does more than one person play the organ, but not at the same time? Does one person play while another person does other things with it? Relevant how it's pressurized? If so, by motor? By manual labor? Is the organ in a church? Do they raise the funds from church goers? Do the funds go to maintaining the organ? Is there any problem with the organ?

by **Sundowner64** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:04 am

GalFisk
Does more than one person play the organ, but not at the same time? Yes, explore. Does one person play while another person does other things with it? Yes, explore. Relevant how it's pressurized? Not much. If so, by motor? This one. By manual labor? Is the organ in a church? Yes (but irrelevant). Do they raise the funds from church goers? Not only. Do the funds go to maintaining the organ? Yes. Is there any problem with the organ? Yes, it needs reconstruction.

by **JenBurdoo1** » Sun Dec 03, 2023 11:44 pm

Is one of the men a professional tuner, repairman, etc, but not a professional musician? Does he leave instructions for the actual musician ("maintain or set these settings")? Was the organ severely damaged, or had it been taken apart for some purpose?

by **Sundowner64** » Mon Dec 04, 2023 1:28 pm

JenBurdoo
Welcome back, Jen!
Is one of the men a professional tuner, repairman, etc, but not a professional musician? Probably, but irrelevant. Does he leave instructions for the actual musician ("maintain or set these settings")? No. Was the organ severely damaged, or had it been taken apart for some purpose? Yes.

by **GalFisk** » Tue Dec 05, 2023 7:57 am

Were the instructions for: use? Assembly? Disassembly? Repair? Spare parts? How to play it while in this state? How to get it into a working state? Which functions were working? Or non-working? Or which tones? Or keys?

by **Sundowner64** » Tue Dec 05, 2023 2:35 pm

GalFisk
Were the instructions for: use? Assembly? Disassembly? Repair? Spare parts? How to play it while in this state? How to get it into a working state? Which functions were working? Or non-working? Or which tones? Or keys? The instructions on the scoresheet were about how to play the piece. They were added by the composer. The composer had no idea that some day a bunch of crazy guys would play the piece on a broken organ. (But investigating how playing that organ and repairing it did fit together could be a promising line.)

by **GalFisk** » Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:02 pm

Relevant how it was broken? Was it impossible to play some of the notes? Or difficult? Or did they sound weird? Did they repair it as they played it? Did they repair it as well s they could, play the music as well as they could, and told the audience how much better it would sound if it got properly repaired?

by **JenBurdoo1** » Wed Dec 06, 2023 6:24 am

Were they playing to test the organ? To determine how it was damaged? How to fix it? Or did they play it just for fun? Is it relevant how they came across these instructions?

by **Sundowner64** » Wed Dec 06, 2023 9:03 am

GalFisk
Relevant how it was broken? It was heavily broken. The church burnt down to the walls in the last days of WWII, with respective consequences for the organ. Was it impossible to play some of the notes? Yes. most of them. Or difficult? Or did they sound weird? And that for the rest. Did they repair it as they played it? Yes. Did they repair it as well as they could, play the music as well as they could, and told the audience how much better it would sound if it got properly repaired? Sort of, but there is more to explore.

JenBurdoo
Were they playing to test the organ? No. To determine how it was damaged? No. This was known already. How to fix it? Or did they play it just for fun? Well, isn't playing music always for fun? Is it relevant how they came across these instructions? They were part of the scoresheet. An instruction by the composer, as it is commonly done to give some idea how the composer intended the piece to sound.

by **GalFisk** » Wed Dec 06, 2023 10:04 am

Did the instructions say which settings to use? Which effects? Which notes? How fast to play? How loudly to play? What air pressure to use? Were the instructions written specifically for church organs?

by **Sundowner64** » Thu Dec 07, 2023 10:47 am

GalFisk
Did the instructions say which settings to use? Which effects? Which notes? How fast to play? This one. How loudly to play? What air pressure to use? Were the instructions written specifically for church organs? For organs in a general sense.

by **GalFisk** » Thu Dec 07, 2023 11:28 am

Does it use one of those Latin or Italian or whatever it is musical terms for playing speed? INumbers? BPM? Is playing style also relevant? Some other instruction for how to play?

by **Sundowner64** » Thu Dec 07, 2023 1:27 pm

GalFisk
Does it use one of those Latin or Italian or whatever it is musical terms for playing speed? No. Numbers? No. BPM? No. Is playing style also relevant? Only indirectly, as the speed also implies a certain playing style. Some other instruction for how to play? No.

by **GalFisk** » Thu Dec 07, 2023 3:09 pm

Was it to be played quickly? Slowly? Rapidly? Solemnly? Mediumly? As fast as humanly possible? Insanely slow like that world record tune that changes to the next tone every few months?

by **trebor2** » Sat Dec 09, 2023 12:47 am

Does it say something like, “very fast, as if with four hands”? (I’m sure I’ve seen something similar in a score somewhere). Does it allude to a style? Or a certain composer? Or piece? (I’ve played for musicals that have said, “like Sly and the Family Stone”, which is way more helpful than actual terms.)

Does the instruction allude to part of the organ specifically?

Is there a word in the instruction that has a relevant double meaning?

by **Sundowner64** » Mon Dec 11, 2023 10:04 am

GalFisk
Was it to be played quickly? Slowly? This one. Rapidly? Solemnly? Mediumly? As fast as humanly possible? Insanely slow like that world record tune that changes to the next tone every few months? Exactly this.

trebor
Does it say something like, “very fast, as if with four hands”? (I’m sure I’ve seen something similar in a score somewhere). Does it allude to a style? Or a certain composer? Or piece? (I’ve played for musicals that have said, “like Sly and the Family Stone”, which is way more helpful than actual terms.) No, it just says that the piece should be played very slowly.

Does the instruction allude to part of the organ specifically? No.

Is there a word in the instruction that has a relevant double meaning? No, but the exact wording is relevant.

by **GalFisk** » Mon Dec 11, 2023 10:06 am

Was the charity along the lines of "give money so that we can repair the next pipe in time to play the next tone"?

by **Sundowner64** » Tue Dec 12, 2023 10:53 am

GalFisk
Was the charity along the lines of "give money so that we can repair the next pipe in time to play the next tone"? Yes, this was one thing the money was needed for. But the fundraiser was actually much simpler. Just the fact that the piece plays a very long time is relevant.

by **GalFisk** » Tue Dec 12, 2023 12:34 pm

Does the fundraiser mention how long the piece will be playing for? Do people who give funds get something? Such as their name on a sign? Are the funds raised continuously? For a short while? For as long as one tone plays? Does the fundraiser mention the future? The ending time of the music?

by **Sundowner64** » Wed Dec 13, 2023 3:42 pm

GalFisk
Does the fundraiser mention how long the piece will be playing for? Yes. Do people who give funds get something? Such as their name on a sign? Exactly this. Are the funds raised continuously? For a short while? For some while (4-5 years, I think). For as long as one tone plays? Not necessarily. Does the fundraiser mention the future? Yes. The ending time of the music? Yes.

by **GalFisk** » Wed Dec 13, 2023 5:24 pm

Does the sign idea come from taking the instructions for the music literally? Do the instructions say how long playing the entire piece will take? Relevant how long it will take? If so, years? Decades? Centuries?

by **Sundowner64** » Wed Dec 13, 2023 5:30 pm

GalFisk
Does the sign idea come from taking the instructions for the music literally? Indirectly, yes. But I'm not sure whether they had this idea already from the beginning or came to it later. Do the instructions say how long playing the entire piece will take? Not exactly, and this is relevant. Relevant how long it will take? Yes. If so, years? Decades? Centuries? This.

by **GalFisk** » Wed Dec 13, 2023 5:41 pm

Relevant how many names can fit on the sign? How much money they hope to collect? Anyone who gives money during the campaign will be dead long before the music is finished, correct? WAG: is each donation speeding up the music, so if enough people donate they may live to hear the end? If not, do the donations do anything to the music (except repairing the organ so that it can be played)? Will something relevant be done with the sign when the music ends? Or before the music ends?

by **Sundowner64** » Fri Dec 15, 2023 10:33 am

GalFisk
Relevant how many names can fit on the sign? Enough for this purpose. How much money they hope to collect? They could expect more than half a million Euro, and eventually got. Anyone who gives money during the campaign will be dead long before the music is finished, correct? Yes. WAG: is each donation speeding up the music, so if enough people donate they may live to hear the end? Nooo, the musicians set out to strictly follow the composer's instructions, which said "As Slow As Possible". So they would not do the smallest bit of what comes close to speeding up the play. If not, do the donations do anything to the music (except repairing the organ so that it can be played)? No, what's left over will probably go to charities. Will something relevant be done with the sign when the music ends? Or before the music ends? No, it's planned that it stays forever. But then, a lot can happen in a few centuries.

by **GalFisk** » Fri Dec 15, 2023 11:50 am

Was it the instruction" as slow as possible" that gave the idea for the fundraiser? Some other instruction? Did the composer intend for the tune to last centuries? Years? Months? Days? Was it written specifically for this heavily damaged organ?

by **BalinTheDwarf** » Fri Dec 15, 2023 4:37 pm

Sounds like Halberstadt -- this it?

by **Sundowner64** » Wed Dec 20, 2023 10:43 am

GalFisk
Was it the instruction" as slow as possible" that gave the idea for the fundraiser? Yes (or rather, after they started to think about what this actually means, they had this idea). Some other instruction? Did the composer intend for the tune to last centuries? Not at all. (But in the end, who knows?) Years? Months? Days? Was it written specifically for this heavily damaged organ? It was initially written for piano and later re-arranged for organ. Up to this one a usual performance took about 70 - 90 minutes. But if you take "as slow as possible" really literally -- how slow can you play an organ when you use sandbags to hold down the keys?

Balin
Sounds like Halberstadt -- this it? Yes. But what is the fundraiser?

by **GalFisk** » Wed Dec 20, 2023 11:11 am

Does the fundraiser use the words "as slow as possible"? Or some of the words? Or almost the same words? Is the concept of slowness relevant for the fundraiser?

by **Sundowner64** » Thu Dec 21, 2023 11:04 am

GalFisk
Does the fundraiser use the words "as slow as possible"? Or some of the words? Or almost the same words? No to all. Is the concept of slowness relevant for the fundraiser? But yes, or rather, the fact that it would take centuries to finish the play.

by **GalFisk** » Thu Dec 21, 2023 11:36 am

Is the concept of doing something for the future relevant? For future generations? For the time after one's own death?

by **BalinTheDwarf** » Sat Dec 23, 2023 12:28 am

Was the fundraiser to raise the money to maintain the organ playing for centuries?

by **Sundowner64** » Wed Jan 03, 2024 7:37 pm

GalFisk
Is the concept of doing something for the future relevant? For future generations? For the time after one's own death? Yes, all this is involved.

Balin
Was the fundraiser to raise the money to maintain the organ playing for centuries? Yes, that was the purpose.

As we're now tapping around only a few steps from the finishing line, here comes a hint:
You could become the sponsor of something. Of what?

by **GalFisk** » Fri Jan 05, 2024 9:06 am

Could you sponsor one of the notes played? Edit: did they let people sponsor every note of the musical piece?

by **Sundowner64** » Mon Jan 08, 2024 3:52 pm

GalFisk
Could you sponsor one of the notes played? Edit: did they let people sponsor every note of the musical piece?
This was the initial idea but in the end they simplified it a bit: you could become the sponsor of one year of playing.

SPOILER
St Burchardi Church in Halberstadt, Germany, is the location of the longest musical performance ever. The piece "Organ^2/ASLSP" by John Cage started there in 2001 and has been calculated for a playing time of 639 years, so to end in 2640.

"ASLSP" stands for "As Slow as Possible", and although it was Cage's intention to encourage musicians to find out how slow they could play it, he probably did not have in mind that you can play as slow as you want if you use sandbags to hold down the keys.

But that's exactly what they do in Halberstadt. They time span of 639 years was selected because this was the time between the inauguration of the first organ in Halberstadt in 1361 and the start of the project in 2000. Here you can read more about the project and about the tone changes which occur every 3-5 months: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_Slow_as_Possible.

The piece is played on a special organ that has only the pipes that are currently needed, while the other pipes being under maintenance or not even yet built. (The original organ was destroyed during WW II.)

One of the fundraisers accompanying the performance was that you could at the price of 1200 EUR become the sponsor of any of the years of playing, with your name mentioned on a plate in the church. (In the meanwhile all 639 years are sold out.)

Another fundraiser: For 500 EUR you could get a ticket for the ceremonial silencing of the last tone on 4 September 2640.

Thanks to all who participated and congrats to GalFisk and Balin for the final step.