lat-puzz.com

by **WiZ** » Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:30 pm

Featherston Street is a major road in downtown Wellington, running north to south near the coast. It is unusual at a global level for having something on both sides of it. What?

True story. No caveat. It's more fun if you don't use Google Maps.

by **doriana_** » Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:58 pm

Relevant that it runs north to south? Relevant that it’s near the coast?
Is it common for streets to have this something on one side of it?
Is the something natural? man-made? tangible? countable? Would someone who walked down the street immediately notice it?
Are the buildings on the street relevant? Crossroads relevant? public transportation?

by **WiZ** » Sun Jan 29, 2023 9:19 pm

Relevant that it runs north to south? in isolation, no Relevant that it’s near the coast? yes
Is it common for streets to have this something on one side of it? in the grand scheme of every street on earth, no
Is the something natural? no man-made? yes tangible? yes countable? yes Would someone who walked down the street immediately notice it? not necessarily
Are the buildings on the street relevant? Crossroads relevant? public transportation? no to all

by **doriana_** » Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:35 am

Water relevant at all? Flood control/prevention relevant?
Is there one on each side of the street? more than one?
Cars relevant?

by **Sundowner64** » Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:35 am

Do other streets in similar locations have this thing on both sides? on one side only? usually not at all but if, then on one side only?
Does Featherston Street run right beside the coast? with the beach on one side? are there stairs to the beach? relevant?
Is the purpose of this thing mainly: safety? comfort? traffic regulation? protection?
Is the thing above road level? below? at road level? Is it part of the road (like: sidewalk, bicycle lane, ..)?
Is it artwork? sort of a monument?
Does the road simply have beach on both of its sides?

by **WiZ** » Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:24 pm

Doriana

Water relevant at all? yes Flood control/prevention relevant? no to both
Is there one on each side of the street? yes more than one? no
Cars relevant? no

Sundowner

Do other streets in similar locations have this thing on both sides? no on one side only? see next usually not at all but if, then on one side only? yes
Does Featherston Street run right beside the coast? no with the beach on one side? no are there stairs to the beach? relevant? n/a to both
Is the purpose of this thing mainly: safety? comfort? traffic regulation? thisish protection?
Is the thing above road level? below? at road level? this Is it part of the road (like: sidewalk, bicycle lane, ..)? yes
Is it artwork? sort of a monument? no to both
Does the road simply have beach on both of its sides? no

by **trebor2** » Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:50 am

Landing strips for aircraft? Docking for sea vessels? Military relevant?

Does this have to do with water in that... is there water on both sides? (I would say the ocean, but maybe it's a strait or something technically?) Rainfall relevant? Water running off the road, as opposed to running onto it?

Is this feature designed to protect people? Protect vehicles? Protect infrastructure? Protect the ocean (with the above caveat)? Protect marine life? Protect a natural feature of the area? Is it to do with marine creatures leaving the water?

by **GalFisk** » Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:34 am

Is the thing built? Painted on? Painted on the street surface? Carved out? Does it benefit car traffic? Pedestrians? Bicyclists? Other traffic? Does it improve safety? Comfort? Convenience? Could this happen in a city far inland? If so, would it ever make sense? Weather relevant? Climate? Number of lanes relevant? Crossing relevant? Traffic lights? Is some condition sometimes negating the effect of having this one side, which is why it's on both?

WAG: does it have tall trees and street light on both sides, because when the wind is blowing sideways relative to the street, the trees blow in front of and block the street lights? But at the same on the other side, the trees are blown away form the street lights on that side?

by **WiZ** » Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:29 pm

Trebor

Landing strips for aircraft? no Docking for sea vessels? yope Military relevant? no

Does this have to do with water in that... is there water on both sides? (I would say the ocean, but maybe it's a strait or something technically?) no Rainfall relevant? Water running off the road, as opposed to running onto it? no to both

Is this feature designed to protect people? Protect vehicles? Protect infrastructure? Protect the ocean (with the above caveat)? Protect marine life? Protect a natural feature of the area? Is it to do with marine creatures leaving the water? no

Just to be sure, the 'yesish' in my last round of answers was to 'traffic regulation' and not 'protection' - there seemed to be a theme to those last questions

GalFisk

Is the thing built? yes Painted on? Painted on the street surface? yes to both Carved out? yes Does it benefit car traffic? Pedestrians? Bicyclists? Other traffic? yes to all Does it improve safety? Comfort? Convenience? yes to all Could this happen in a city far inland? no If so, would it ever make sense? no Weather relevant? no Climate? no Number of lanes relevant? no Crossing relevant? no Traffic lights? no Is some condition sometimes negating the effect of having this one side, which is why it's on both? no, although you're on the right track in a very oblique way with this

WAG: does it have tall trees and street light on both sides, because when the wind is blowing sideways relative to the street, the trees blow in front of and block the street lights? But at the same on the other side, the trees are blown away form the street lights on that side? Interesting thought - and wind is certainly an issue here - but this is not the answer

by **GalFisk** » Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:03 pm

Is wind direction relevant? Strength? Stuff blowing in the wind? Hurricanes? Debris? Leaves? Water? Rain? Storm surges? Ice? Parking relevant? Snow? Clearing the road?

by **WiZ** » Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:54 pm

Is wind direction relevant? Strength? no to both Stuff blowing in the wind? the answer, my friend, is no Hurricanes? Debris? Leaves? Water? Rain? Storm surges? Ice? Parking relevant? Snow? Clearing the road? no to all

by **GalFisk** » Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:24 am

Is any weather apart from wind relevant? Is the wind direction relevant? Is strong wind relevant? Are buildings relevant? Is it usual to have this thing on one side of a street? Is it a thing people drive on? Walk on? Look at? Read? Is it some sort of sign?

by **Sundowner64** » Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:27 pm

Is the relevant traffic trucks? buses? motor bikes? skateboards? inline skates? scooters? cabs? rental cars? vans/motorhomes? pickups? trailers?
Parking cars relevant? parking trailers?
Is the structure in the road for parking?
Is the significance of the coast in this puzzle merely that all the traffic to the seaside (the beach/the port) runs through this road?
Is there a lot of traffic in the road?
Is it a one-way road? relevant?
Is it a cul-de-sac? (one never knows)

by **WiZ** » Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:17 pm

GalFisk

Is any weather apart from wind relevant? no (and wind isn't relevant either, we just have a lot of it - I acknowledge that my earlier aside was misleading) Is the wind direction relevant? Is strong wind relevant? no to both Are buildings relevant? no Is it usual to have this thing on one side of a street? [b]not usual, but if it does happen, it will be on one side almost invariably[/b] Is it a thing people drive on? Walk on? yes to both Look at? Read? Is it some sort of sign? signage is relevant, yes

Sundowner

Is the relevant traffic trucks? buses? motor bikes? skateboards? inline skates? scooters? cabs? rental cars? vans/motorhomes? pickups? trailers? there is no specific relevant traffic
Parking cars relevant? parking trailers? no to both
Is the structure in the road for parking? in small part
Is the significance of the coast in this puzzle merely that all the traffic to the seaside (the beach/the port) runs through this road? no
Is there a lot of traffic in the road? yes but largely irrelevant
Is it a one-way road? no relevant? no with a tiny ish
Is it a cul-de-sac? no (one never knows)

by **Biograd1** » Thu Feb 02, 2023 7:06 am

So to sum up (checking there aren't any misleading answers of yours still "at large" and unclarified):

"It" (meaning "the thing that is on both sides", NOT "Featherston road itself as a whole):
--is at road level
--is man-made as opposed to natural
--is painted on the road (as opposed to, for example, consisting of a different surface than the road, like gravel or sand when the rest of the road is paved)
--is driven on, walked on, AND very occasionally parked on as well (all sometimes, not necessarily simultaneously!)
--involves signage, but isn't ITSELF a type of sign

If all this is true, is it simply some special-purpose lane of the road? such as a turning lane, a carpool lane, passing lane, etc.?

by **GalFisk** » Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:43 am

Would this work/make sense if the city was near a big lake rather than the ocean? Are the things ever used the same way on both sides at once? Do people switch sides occasionally, using this thing on only one side, then only the other? Or using this thing on both sides, but then deciding not to use one side anymore? Animals relevant? Sea birds? Vegetation?

by **Sarisberie2** » Fri Feb 03, 2023 4:38 pm

Is the road uncrossable for some reason? So that, in order for people to use the thing, there has to be one available on both sides?

by **trebor2** » Sat Feb 11, 2023 3:08 am

Boats relevant? Other water vessels? Skis? Jet skis? Does the road somehow have the capacity for water traffic to be let through?

Does water interact with this feature in some relevant way? Does the road light up, for instance, when it’s especially slick?

Is this feature designed to speed up traffic (including foot traffic)? To slow it down? To make people pay attention?

by **WiZ** » Mon Nov 06, 2023 12:01 am

Biograd

So to sum up (checking there aren't any misleading answers of yours still "at large" and unclarified):

"It" (meaning "the thing that is on both sides", NOT "Featherston road itself as a whole):
--is at road level yes
--is man-made as opposed to natural yes
--is painted on the road (as opposed to, for example, consisting of a different surface than the road, like gravel or sand when the rest of the road is paved) yes, although painting on the road surface is really an element of this thing rather than a fundamental part of its nature, if that makes sense
--is driven on, walked on, AND very occasionally parked on as well (all sometimes, not necessarily simultaneously!) yes - walking while parking is rarely done outside of the Flintstones
--involves signage, but isn't ITSELF a type of sign yes

If all this is true, is it simply some special-purpose lane no

GalFisk

Would this work/make sense if the city was near a big lake rather than the ocean? yes, the same circumstances could arise in that case Are the things ever used the same way on both sides at once? good question and hard to give a straight answer to - if we're referring to the current usage of the thing either side of Featherston street in their current state, then yes Do people switch sides occasionally, using this thing on only one side, then only the other? yes, although not purely for the sake of switching things up Or using this thing on both sides, but then deciding not to use one side anymore? no Animals relevant? Sea birds? Vegetation? no to all

Sarisberie

Is the road uncrossable for some reason? no So that, in order for people to use the thing, there has to be one available on both sides? no

Trebor

Boats relevant? Other water vessels? historically, yes; contemporarily, no Skis? Jet skis? Does the road somehow have the capacity for water traffic to be let through? no

Does water interact with this feature in some relevant way? no Does the road light up, for instance, when it’s especially slick? no (but interesting)

Is this feature designed to speed up traffic (including foot traffic)? In effect, yes, but beware FAs To slow it down? To make people pay attention? no to these

by **GalFisk** » Mon Nov 06, 2023 7:31 am

Boat traffic relevant? Other water traffic? Bathing? Did the thing on either side have a previous state that is relevantly different from the current state? Or a previous use that it is no longer used for?

by **Sundowner64** » Mon Nov 06, 2023 9:20 am

Hooray, WiZ is back! Welcome back!

Is the road a one-way road? relevant?
Is the thing on both sides in parallel? as opposite to first for 100 yds on the left side, then for 100 yds on the right side, and so on?
Is the thing needed on both sides because it might be unusable on one of the sides occasionally?
Weather conditions relevant? Sunlight/shadow? Wind? Rain?
As historical traffic was mentioned: horse-drawn vehicles relevant?
Does some historical rule, condition or privileg apply to this road? Does the road have to be ready for a particular use at any time and any condition? (like there must always a military convoy be able to pass through)

by **WiZ** » Mon Nov 06, 2023 10:40 pm

GalFisk

Boat traffic relevant? yes Other water traffic? no Bathing? no Did the thing on either side have a previous state that is relevantly different from the current state? yes! Or a previous use that it is no longer used for? yes, and this is tied closely to its 'state'

Sundowner

Hooray, WiZ is back! Welcome back! Thank you! All those Lateral videos with Tom Scott were reminding me that I had an unfinished puzzle. Hopefully, Tom bringing the art of the LTP to the wider world will spark a resurgence of interest in our forum. I suspect it won't.

Is the road a one-way road? no relevant? no
Is the thing on both sides in parallel? yes as opposite to first for 100 yds on the left side, then for 100 yds on the right side, and so on?
Is the thing needed on both sides because it might be unusable on one of the sides occasionally? no - there is a slightly greater risk of this happening on one side but this isn't very relevant
Weather conditions relevant? Sunlight/shadow? Wind? Rain? no to all
As historical traffic was mentioned: horse-drawn vehicles relevant? no
Does some historical rule, condition or privileg apply to this road? weak yesish - worth exploring Does the road have to be ready for a particular use at any time and any condition? no (like there must always a military convoy be able to pass through)

by **Sundowner64** » Tue Nov 07, 2023 8:45 am

Was one side of the road directly at the waterfront in past times? both sides?
Was the road a quay/dam/bridge?
Is the road in the port area? does it connect the city with the port? is the traffic on the road largely port-related?
Are or were boats transported on this road to the port? Is it still required that boats can pass through?

by **GalFisk** » Tue Nov 07, 2023 1:30 pm

Is the current state of the thing: rotten? Dilapidated? Unused? Unsafe? Missing? Corroded? Dangerous? Useless? Infested? Disgusting? Ugly? Something negative? Positive? Both? Neutral?

by **Biograd1** » Tue Nov 07, 2023 9:07 pm

yes, although painting on the road surface is really an element of this thing rather than a fundamental part of its nature, if that makes sense

We have determined that the "fundamental part of its nature" is NOT some special material that it is made of, or the elevation (protruding above the road, like a sea wall, or sunken below, like a canal). So, is the "fundamental part of its nature" the legal rules that are, or once were, in effect regarding the use of this part of the road?

Is the significance of the feature effectively that it widens the overall width of the road, allowing some non-car vehicles to occasionally pass along it? that it sets a boundary between the sea and the road, to take into account things like tides and storms? that it allowed for mooring boats near the road?

by **WiZ** » Thu Nov 09, 2023 1:12 am

Sundowner

Was one side of the road directly at the waterfront in past times? both sides? no to both, but so very ORT
Was the road a quay Featherston street was never a quay, but quays are very relevant /dam/bridge? no to both
Is the road in the port area? yes does it connect the city with the port? yes, but this might not be super relevant is the traffic on the road largely port-related? no
Are or were boats transported on this road to the port? not relevantly Is it still required that boats can pass through? no

GalFisk

Is the current state of the thing: rotten? Dilapidated? Unused? Unsafe? Missing? Corroded? Dangerous? Useless? Infested? Disgusting? Ugly? Something negative? no to all Positive? yes, on the balance Both? no Neutral? arguably this too

Biograd

yes, although painting on the road surface is really an element of this thing rather than a fundamental part of its nature, if that makes sense

We have determined that the "fundamental part of its nature" is NOT some special material that it is made of, or the elevation (protruding above the road, like a sea wall, or sunken below, like a canal). correct So, is the "fundamental part of its nature" the legal rules that are, or once were, in effect regarding the use of this part of the road? 'legal rules' isn't quite right, but, yes, it's some intangible administrative aspect of it

Is the significance of the feature effectively that it widens the overall width of the road, allowing some non-car vehicles to occasionally pass along it? no that it sets a boundary between the sea and the road, to take into account things like tides and storms? no, although the coastal-ness is relevant that it allowed for mooring boats near the road? no

by **GalFisk** » Fri Nov 10, 2023 11:24 am

Something positive: pretty? Decorative? Useful? Nostalgic? Log-lasting? Solid? Practical? Interesting? Amusing? Strange? Famous? Word record holding?

by **Biograd1** » Tue Nov 14, 2023 5:56 pm

Is it a two-way street? a one-way street?

Assuming it's two-way, is the relevant aspect that something differs between the two directions of traffic? possibly there are different speed limits for northbound and southbound traffic? I would think the fact that we know it's called Featherston Street rules out the possibility that the name of the street is different if you're traveling north vs. south, correct? (though coming up with this makes me wonder whether there are any streets in the world like this--possibly two parallel streets that got merged into one sometime in history, once addresses were too hard to change...)

by **WiZ** » Tue Nov 14, 2023 10:07 pm

GalFisk

Something positive: pretty? Decorative? Useful? this Nostalgic? Log-lasting? Solid? Practical? this Interesting? Amusing? Strange? Famous? Word record holding? although most others apply to an extent, apart from 'strange' and 'world record holding'

BioGrad

Is it a two-way street? yes a one-way street?

Assuming it's two-way, is the relevant aspect that something differs between the two directions of traffic? no possibly there are different speed limits for northbound and southbound traffic? no I would think the fact that we know it's called Featherston Street rules out the possibility that the name of the street is different if you're traveling north vs. south, correct? correct, but the names of streets is a relevant lead... (though coming up with this makes me wonder whether there are any streets in the world like this--possibly two parallel streets that got merged into one sometime in history, once addresses were too hard to change...)

by **Sundowner64** » Wed Nov 15, 2023 1:54 am

Does the road lead to a quay? on both ends? (i.e. connecting two quays?)
Or is a quay circling around the road, crossing it twice?

by **WiZ** » Wed Nov 15, 2023 2:30 am

Does the road lead to a quay? on both ends? (i.e. connecting two quays?)
Or is a quay circling around the road, crossing it twice? No, but this is pretty close - there is relevantly a quay on each side of Featherston street. But why?

by **GalFisk** » Wed Nov 15, 2023 7:24 am

Is there a relevant quay on either side for: legal reasons? Practical reasons? Stupid reasons? No longer relevant reasons? Is the street relevantly a border? Or on a border? Import relevant? Export?

by **Biograd1** » Wed Nov 15, 2023 7:22 pm

Is the name "Featherston St." itself a relevant lead? the name(s) of one or more of its cross streets?

Is one quay facing the ocean itself, whereas the other faces a harbor? or a river? Is part of Featherston St. a bridge that crosses a channel between two bodies of water?

By the way, as to my previous musing, I looked a bit and it seems there are streets with different names for the two sides/directions: https://help.openstreetmap.org/question ... f-the-road. Not only is the linked thread about one, but in the comments someone states that there are several of them just in the center of Nottingham.

by **WiZ** » Wed Nov 15, 2023 8:22 pm

GalFisk

Is there a relevant quay on either side for: legal reasons? Practical reasons? thisish Stupid reasons? No longer relevant reasons? this Is the street relevantly a border? Or on a border? Import relevant? Export? no to all

Biograd

Is the name "Featherston St." itself a relevant lead? no the name(s) of one or more of its cross streets? no (and FA)

Is one quay facing the ocean itself, whereas the other faces a harbor? one quay abuts the harbor, no to rest or a river? Is part of Featherston St. a bridge that crosses a channel between two bodies of water? no

By the way, as to my previous musing, I looked a bit and it seems there are streets with different names for the two sides/directions: https://help.openstreetmap.org/question ... f-the-road. Not only is the linked thread about one, but in the comments someone states that there are several of them just in the center of Nottingham. Interesting!

by **Biograd1** » Thu Nov 16, 2023 6:17 am

So only one quay (directly) abuts a body of water (namely, the harbor), while the other quay doesn't? or does the second abut a body of water as well, just not one of the types I mentioned?

If the former, did the currently "dry" quay formerly abut the water? Possibly, one was built abutting the harbor, then later the road was built between it and the water, cutting it off from the harbor and necessitating that a new quay be built on the other side of the road where the water was now confined?

by **trebor2** » Thu Nov 16, 2023 7:07 pm

Is the thing purely something that is painted on the road? (Like a crosswalk/zebra crossing without lights?) Does it comprise something painted on the road and something(s) else?

Are there two quays because a person might want to dock on either side, and it would be a long way around? And maybe the "it" is a means of transporting a boat from one quay to the other quickly? Is one quay for vessels going out and one for vessels returning? For vessels that have cargo and those that don't? For boats that have to dock on a certain side?

Relevant when the quays were built? When they were built in relation to each other?

Stairs relevant? Some other way of getting from the quay up to land? Is the thing something that helps you get from one quay to the other? Is raising or lowering water levels relevant?

by **WiZ** » Thu Nov 16, 2023 9:47 pm

Biograd

So only one quay (directly) abuts a body of water (namely, the harbor), while the other quay doesn't? correct! or does the second abut a body of water as well, just not one of the types I mentioned? no

If the former, did the currently "dry" quay formerly abut the water? yes! Possibly, one was built abutting the harbor, then later the road was built between it and the water, cutting it off from the harbor and necessitating that a new quay be built on the other side of the road where the water was now confined? In terms of which roads were built where and when, this is what happened - but it wasn't merely a case of filling the space between the original quay and the water

Trebor

Is the thing purely something that is painted on the road? (Like a crosswalk/zebra crossing without lights?) Does it comprise something painted on the road and something(s) else? yes

Are there two quays because a person might want to dock on either side, and it would be a long way around? no And maybe the "it" is a means of transporting a boat from one quay to the other quickly? no, but this sounds like a Tom Scott video in the making Is one quay for vessels going out and one for vessels returning? For vessels that have cargo and those that don't? For boats that have to dock on a certain side? no to all

Relevant when the quays were built? yes, but... When they were built in relation to each other? ...moreso this

Stairs relevant? Some other way of getting from the quay up to land? Is the thing something that helps you get from one quay to the other? no to all Is raising or lowering water levels relevant? Very, but FAs lurking

If it makes your future questions easier, the quay by the water is Customhouse Quay, and the inland quay is Lambton Quay.

by **GalFisk** » Fri Nov 17, 2023 10:08 am

Was the inland quay built first? Second? Was the inland quay built when there was water there? In anticipation of having water there? If so, was that anticipation never fulfilled? Were both quays ever in use at the same time? Was the inland quay used during the construction of the road? Was land deliberately dried up? Or accidentally? Did any land relevantly rise? Sink?

by **WiZ** » Sun Nov 19, 2023 10:56 pm

Was the inland quay built first? yes Second? Was the inland quay built when there was water there? yes! In anticipation of having water there? no If so, was that anticipation never fulfilled? n/a Were both quays ever in use at the same time? As roads, yes. As literal quays, no Was the inland quay used during the construction of the road? no Was land deliberately dried up? no Or accidentally? no Did any land relevantly rise? yes! Sink? no

by **GalFisk** » Mon Nov 20, 2023 4:21 am

Did it rise gradually? Violently? Due tot he end of the last ice age? Due to an earthquake? Due to human activity? Volcanic activity? Was the land rise anticipated when the first quay was built? Is a breakwater relevant?

by **WiZ** » Mon Nov 20, 2023 9:20 pm

Did it rise gradually? Violently? yes Due tot he end of the last ice age? Due to an earthquake? yes Due to human activity? Volcanic activity? Was the land rise anticipated when the first quay was built? no Is a breakwater relevant? no

***** SPOILER *****

It has a 'quay' on each side.

Wellington's main street, Lambton Quay, abutted the water when it was built. Then, in 1855, an earthquake violently uplifted a significant amount of land on the harbour side of Lambton quay. Much of the CBD is now built on this uplifted land, including Featherston street and Customhouse Quay, an actual quay which abuts the current harbour.

Perhaps this will happen again, and we'll have to cut a third quay.

Congratulations, GalFisk on the solution, and thank you everyone for playing!